S1E26 - Ast and Wez Talk

Hello and welcome to behind the Locked Doors, which is basically an excuse for some cool lads to get together and talk about writing and creating and it's all wrapped up in a podcast. Yeah, I don't know if there will be intro music today, but whatever. That's mostly because it's just me, Sam.

Stark, and Jack is here. Also Jack Sparrow.

You should just start calling yourself that. That'd be awesome.

I'm not gonna do that, but.

So do you want to start with an update? Because let's be real, I think everybody knows that you and I do not have anything.

We have no updates. Not on azenwest anyway.

Yeah, let's skip that segment. Let's move on to. Let's just talk about as it was.

Yeah, let's talk about it.

Like I said before, I have not worked on this in a while and I have actually not even thought about it because my brain has been so full of other absolute, like, frustrating isn't even the right word. Just horrendously written. Just absolutely the worst written BS I have ever had to read into a microphone in my life.

I'm so sorry.

It's kind of a fun experience because I don't care. I'm getting paid to say this nonsense into the microphone and I get paid fairly well.

That's good.

Yeah. But I went on to the app yesterday and I looked at the reviews and the performance is five stars across the board.

Of course it is.

There's like three people. Three people have said that it's a five stars. That's awesome. But thank you. The reviews are all like, I hate this mc. I hate this protagonist. I hate this main character so much. I can't listen to this anymore. The main character is so stupid. And that's what I've been saying for months. Recording this fucking show. I can't stand this kid. And it's so. And I'm in the last. I'm in the last 10 episodes.

Oh, my God.

And yeah, and it's really exciting because I'm almost done. And this should be like, where the climax of everything is happening, but we're bringing in so many new storylines and new characters. We have 10 episodes left. So I'm just. It's so hard. It's painful to record. And I know that if there is actually anybody that gets this far into the show, they're just going to be like, what the fuck am I listening to? And why did I just waste like hours of my life listening to this crap? And I'm very. I'm very sad about it, but I actually enjoy reading the. I enjoy reading the. The reviews because it's kind of, like, validating all my feelings.

Right. So, yeah, totally. I'm sorry. That's been your whole. Your whole job, like, the last four months.

It's the last four months I've been doing that. And again, they pay really well, so it's okay. It's not like destroying my brain and my consciousness and my soul, but it is getting tiring. I am tired of reading really, really bad.

Sorry.

All the time.

Fuck. Free him.

Anyway, okay, enough about me. So now let's talk about azenwest.

Okay, let's.

I wanted to ask you. I've actually been curious about this. When I sort of pitched the idea to you, like, it was basically a. I hopped into your discord DM and was like, yo, what if we like that kind of thing.

Yeah.

What was your first kind of feelings about it? Besides the obvious, like, oh, yeah, blah, blah, blah. What was your. Did you have a long term. Like, this is what I want to. This is what I want to accomplish with this story? Or was it just a. This sounds really fun and I want to, like. What were your thoughts when you were. It was first percolating in your head.

Mm. Mm. I was like, a really hype about the idea of getting to expand Azan Wes story more because even though, like, in Unspeakable Distance, we do get some insights into both of their backstories and what was going on for them before they ended up where they ended up in that show. I was also really interested in seeing them together because they're such a funny pair of people to have in a room together. And I also think that because there are overlapping elements in their backstories, there was the potential for a lot of silly, goofy hijinks and then also some really serious drama later on. And that was an exciting prospect. But, yeah, my first thought was, like, oh, my God. Fucking sick. Like, bro's road trip spin off.

Yeah.

And I still feel that way about it.

I said, like, trans buddy cop comedy.

Like, five times, except we're running from the cops.

Yes. Yes, definitely. I remember very clearly my thoughts when I was sort of letting this idea manifest. I liked the character of Simmons so much.

Oh, my God. Yes.

And I liked the. Yeah, I liked the world that had been created so much that I respected what Unspeakable Distance was doing. I really love the breakdown of the relationship and the getting farther and farther away and not being able to fix that and stuff. That whole concept was just really Cool. But I was thinking about how great these characters were fleshed out and how well we had made the world, and I felt like we were wasting it. And I totally get that that's what Unspeakable Distance is about. But I figured, hey, this. This is a great concept, but it's also a fake thing that we could just turn around.

Well, and we got a lot of juice out of Unspeakable Distance. Yes, we really did. We really did.

Yeah. But I wanted to do the inverse. I wanted to. Instead of a breakdown or a falling out in a relationship, I wanted to do the inverse of that, which was like, yeah, they may be really, really far apart, but I want to see a story of somebody fighting really, really hard to come back together. Cause I am hopelessly, forever and ever and ever, a absolute sucker for the happy ending, or at least the satisfying ending. And I love a good horror story. I love a good dystopian. Whatever. I love Grimdark. Grimdark is, like, my favorite. But I get kind of sad when the ending is not sad. I don't mind if an ending is sad. I don't like it when an ending is just unfulfilling or, like, not obligatory. What's the word? It's like when it's not. You're not sure. They just leave it out there for sure.

Maybe like an uncertain ending.

Yeah, I don't really like uncertain endings, and I know that there are great uncertain endings out there. But me, personally, if I'm making a thing.

It's not your flavor.

I want it to have a good ending. And that's basically my drive for doing this story, is that these characters are great and they're interesting, and I don't want them to be wasted. And I want to tell the opposite.

Story or the other. Maybe the other half of this story.

The other half, yeah. But not in a way where I was unsatisfied with Unspeakable Distance. It's more like I'm complimenting it by doing the yin to the yang.

Yes, well. And I would say also there were characters in Unspeakable Distance whose stories ended in a place that felt kind of correct and satisfying, even though it was like a. Ooh, wow. That's so wild and spooky. I wonder what's gonna happen to them. But that was the right way for their story to end. But with Azen west, it felt like there was more juice to be juiced. Yes.

I want all the juice. I'm thirsty.

Want all the juice.

All right, cool. So that was one of my big. That was one of my big questions. Another sort of thought that I had was because. Because I have. Unfortunately, this is what I do. And I. What is it? I. Pants everything. I usually end up making things more than I originally planned to. My writers group, they. I mean, I think I've talked about this before. My writers group likes to tease me because they'll do a prompt and they're like, okay, we're gonna write a short story. And then they'll be like, sam, story is less than this many words. And I'm like, cool, all right. And I'll come back with a 25,000 word, like, novella. Every time.

Yeah. And they're like, okay, so that's not a short story. Nice try. Yes.

Yes. Every time. And so I've sort of. I feel like I might have done that with Azen west. And I have built up the world and I have all these ideas. Fortunately, I haven't actually written any of it yet, so you could be like, no, Sam, we're not doing this. And keep it short. But I have, at least in my head and in my notes, I have enough material to do more than just our original eight episode plan. And I mean, that's cool.

Yeah. Like, 8 to 10 was where we were originally thinking 8 to 10. Right.

I just wanted, like, one podcast season. I just wanted to finish telling the story, and now I think I have. I think I have enough for two. I think I have enough for two seasons, and two seasons I have, and I wanted to maybe get your input on that. Like, is this a project that you wouldn't mind continuing doing, or do we want to keep it in, like, this one season kind of one off thing? Because I'm really, really leaning more to keeping it short. But I guess I would have to, like, show you the stuff that I had.

Yeah, you'd have to show me the stuff. Because I. I think that as. As much as I am happy to just play as however long, like, because he's a character I enjoy performing, if it turns out that it would serve that, like, giving the closure to those characters more to keep the arc of this story shorter, then I think we have to bow to that. But if it turns out that you have, like, rad shit in your brain that we really want to see them do more than will fit in 10 episodes or eight episodes, then I think that's worth exploring also. But I don't know what those things are because they're inside of your brain.

They're inside my. Yeah, there is also the option. There's no rule for how long a season of a show needs to be. So if it ends up being 15 episodes of one season, I feel like that would be fine too.

Yeah, that's totally also fine. Cool.

And I'm glad that you are flexible also, because I can put myself in a stringent. This is what we're doing, and this is how many episodes we're doing. You cannot do.

Yeah, you can do that.

I don't. I don't really like to do that, though, because then that my creativity sort of goes and.

Yeah, I don't want to do that.

So at least I know that I have your blessing to at least try stuff. And if it doesn't work, we can be like, meh, let's not.

Let's not do that. Right? Totally. Yeah. If you. If you're sitting there like, I have easily enough shit for about half again, as much podcast as we thought we were gonna make, then I'm like, well, sick.

I like these characters and I like.

Seeing them flop around together. So that's not gonna upset me at all.

And so many opportunities to bring in voice acting friends that our friends. More folks to just play just one off little dumb. It's turning into the Mandalorian. Every episode is just this fun little. There's a heist one, and then there's a save this person one, and then there's a. Oh, no, there's a. You know. And you just get a cool little guest star in every single episode.

Well, you know. You know what was good was the first season of the Mandalorian when that's really what the show was. It was like a different little adventure every episode. And also there's a cute baby there.

Yep. I mean, I think that's where a lot of my. I don't know why. Cause I haven't watched the Mandalorian the first season since it came out, basically.

Yeah, me neither. But I enjoyed it.

But I enjoyed it. Yeah, I really enjoyed it, and it really sort of impacted me. And to be honest, I think I've watched it like two or three times because I have children and those children like it too. So.

Yeah, I don't think anybody will be.

Mad, though, if it's Mandalorian esque. Trans Betty Mandalorian.

Right, Exactly. A trans fugitive from the law Mandalorian. Yeah. I think that structure from the first Mandalorian season did really work for me of like, taking a pair of characters that were interesting and complex in their own right and then just putting them in all these Situations one after another. You know, that's like a really fun way to explore characters.

Yeah. And it wasn't like the episodes were technically kind of standalone ish, but there was a through thread that was very, very clear. And so I think that we also will be able to do that. We have a through thread. A through thread that is very, very clear. We have a very defined goal, and everything that these characters are going to be doing, no matter how crazy or just outrageous the shit is, they do ultimately get them closer to that goal. So I feel like that will work, especially the heist.

Everybody loves a good heist. Who doesn't like a heist? Yeah. But if we're looking over the top of every episode, like, okay, see that little dot in the distance? That's Simmons. And we're going there. We have to be going there. Everything we do is to get us closer to there. I think that'll still feel like interconnected in the overarching sense. Even if the day to day little adventures and mishaps and hijinks are not necessarily like Simmons fronted, that impetus will still be there throughout.

The other really important thing that I cannot believe that I haven't talked to you about yet, but, you know, my brain. Sorry.

And you've been busy, to be fair. Yes.

Just so many things. Right. The ending of the show, or at least the ending of this season. I always kind of envisioned that it would be them basically rescuing Simmons and getting Simmons on their ship and off the mushroom. The dead mushroom thing.

Yeah.

And I guess we never really talked about where this was going to officially end. Is it going to be when we pick up Simmons and save him? Or do we need to have a little bit more? Like maybe this is completely just as an example, like, if they're. Let's say there's somebody chasing us, like actively chasing us, and we have to go in and we have to grab Simmons and we have to get him off the ship, and then we have a space chase or something. Do we need something on the tail end, like one last fun adventure episode with Simmons? Or is the ultimate pinnacle ending of the show literally just saving Simmons?

Yeah. Like, door opens and you hear Simmons voice on the other side.

Yeah, exactly.

That's a good question. Because I feel like depending on, you know, how it's executed, either one of those could be a very satisfying ending. Like, you know, the ending of Monsters Inc. The movie. Yes, that's the first one. To me, that's the first option. And then the option where there's a little sort of Tale right at the end, where Simmons is part of the crew, so to speak, is also appealing to me because I really like Simmons and I like working with Mike. But, yeah, we'd have to think about whether it was in service of the, like, greater narrative to put that. That fun little tale right at the end. Because I think, again, depending on how it's executed, I think it could be really satisfying. But if it's. If it just feels like, oh, why are they still, like, you know, flopping around when basically the story is over? That's not how we want to, like, leave the listener or us.

Yeah.

So I feel like it'll kind of depend, but I'm open to that possibility.

Yeah. And the. I guess the biggest. The biggest, I don't know, question in my brain on whether or not we do that is I know personally from people that I've talked to and looked at reviews and blah, blah, blah, is that Simmons is a favorite of basically anybody who listened to the show.

Literally anyone.

Yeah. And so. Including the people that were in the show.

Yes.

And it's like, are we going to. If we do the Monsters, Inc. Ending, I'm just gonna call it that from now on. If we do the Monsters, Inc. Ending, are we going to take that away from listeners? Like, they're waiting to hear from Simmons. They're waiting to have a Simmons episode, or they're waiting to have the banter between. Cause one thing that I personally, as a human being, would really like to see, write, act, whatever, is some really great banter back and forth between Simmons and az. Because that's something we haven't yet. So if we.

They just haven't hung out, like, at all.

Exactly. Yeah. And if we're going the way that we originally were thinking of going, AZ is gonna become. Not obsessed, but, like, we need to get you back to your boyfriend. Cause he listens to. He listens to the broadcast.

Here's the messages. Yeah.

And he falls in love with at least the idea of Simmons, just like everybody else does. So it's like we don't have at least a little bit of AZ and Simm talking. Is that, like, you know, is that not cool? Would that be? Like, people would be mad that we don't do that? Because I feel like I would be kind of sad if there wasn't. That.

If I were a listener, I'd be like, what the fuck?

Why don't you?

Exactly. Well, yeah. So I think the trick will be to come up with a really compelling reason for there to be a. Basically, whatever Is the last episode to be still sort of a. Like there's still some, like, pressing thing that needs solving that now Simmons is along for the ride on.

Or they need Simmons for like. It's imperative that Simmons is there to do it or something.

Right. We can't solve whatever is this pressing issue until we have Simmons expertise on the matter or whatever.

I have a. An image in my head of them getting on the ship in like dead mushrooms everywhere and spores, and it's just terrible and gross. And they have to be in their suits and they have not the parignation, the preservation soldier with them. That Mike is gonna play.

Right.

Other Mike.

Other Mike. Oh, that'll get confusing.

Yeah, that will. But I think he's Michael.

Michael. Okay.

Yeah. Michael will play him. And I have this vision of them cracking open his pod and Simmons being like, he's got cryo sleep, whatever. And he's like. And they gotta put him in a suit and he's like a baby. They have to dress him. Poor soldier guy has to carry Simmons as they're trying to get. There could be some pretty good, very ridiculous hijinks, but also intense getting him out of where they are. Cause I feel like most of the stuff that we've written is, you know, they escape by the skin of their teeth. And we might want to continue that through the Simmons rescue.

Sure. Well, and it could be. Yeah, like, because AZ and West themselves have been wriggling out of every trap that's been laid for them or every pursuer that has been trying to chase him down. Like having this moment where it's looking like, ooh, shit, we may not get out of it this time because there's nowhere left for us to run. Like, we are at the end of this trail. I think that could be fun.

Well, yeah, I'm glad that we have. We have. An overabundance of ideas is actually good. And the problem at the same time.

As usual.

Yeah. So this has been idea brainstorming with Jack and Sam.

Yeah. Like, listen, sometimes you have to think about the end of a thing before the thing exists, so you know where you're aiming.

That's actually a really good way for me to not completely go off the rails when I'm writing a book. If I have an actual end goal, I can at least not write a seven book series and just keep going and going and going and going if I have an end insight.

Yeah, totally.

But anyway, is there anything else that you would like to talk about before I edit all of this together and give it to Scott.

I guess just. Do we want to set any sort of concrete goal for ourselves for the remainder of this month? Because I know Scott's on hiatus now. Good for him. He deserves it. Good job, Scott. Take a break, Scott. Good for you. Yeah, do you. And I want to be like, hey, let's have something for Scott to look at when he comes back in November.

I actually had an idea.

Okay, hit me.

I still have to finish this book that I'm narrating. It is a 200,000 word book.

That's so much of a bad book.

Yeah. No, no, no. This is actually a good book. This is a book. Not the show I was doing.

Not the bad show. Okay.

No, the problem with is that it's extremely dense and it is literary and there are a whole bunch of science terms. And on top of the science terms, there's Hawaiian language, which is very. So it's been a very, very. Yeah, it's very cool. It's been a very, very long and very difficult but very rewarding process. The deadline for this book is actually the beginning of November, and I'm going to have to use up until the beginning of November. But what if next week we did, like, another behind the Locked Doors episode and we brought in Mike, if Mike was available, and we could talk more about Azim west and get some more concrete ideas and then having more like, concrete, like, I will write shit down. I will, like, take notes. And then once we have that, because I know we need to sit down with Mike anyway, might as well do it and record it.

Yeah. I would like to get both like Mike on this show more because it's just fun to have him. And also, he does have a huge brain full of smart ideas. And I want to know, like, where he wants to see the story going too, because Simmons is, like, a large part of it. And I think that it would be totally reasonable to take his artistic tendencies and visions into account as well.

Yeah, exactly. So if we did that next week, and it doesn't have to be at our regular time, we can try and make it doable for Mike and we could do that. And then our goal would be after we have that kind of brainstorming session with Mike, we will have more stuff to compile and put together and I guess present when we're back to normal with Scott in November.

Mm. Mm. Okay. I'm cool with that if you are.

Yay. There's also Halloween, and Halloween is like Christmas at my house, so there's a lot going on. Yeah. Ow.

That hurts. Are you okay?

Yeah, I'm good. Not very much space in this recording booth. Oh, yeah.

Mood.

Okay, so we have goals. We have talked about things, and I think unless there's anything else, that is all for today.

No, I think that's it.

Yes. All right, well, have a great week, everybody, and we will see you next time.

Goodbye, listeners. Bye.

Thank you for joining us for behind the Locked Doors, a Library of Cursed Knowledge production podcast thing. I don't know if you are interested in any of these projects. You can head over to Library Horse, which will eventually redirect to a webpage once I make it. You know, if you want to support the podcast, we do have a Patreon. It's patreon.com cursedknowledge. See y'all next week. No, wait. See y'all in two weeks.

Sa.