S2E1 - Not The Simpsons Episode

Foreign. Welcome to behind the Locked Doors, a motivational chat between friends we just happened to record and make into a podcast. I'm your host, Sam Stark. I am missing my two other cohorts as they are. It's been an interesting 2025 already, so hopefully Scott and Jack will be with us again soon. Instead, I have a special treat for you all. I have my very good friend and co star Interiority here with me today. Say hi, Interiority.

Hi Interiority.

I knew you were gonna do that. Okay, so full disclosure, we've already done this once, but then my audio completely shit the bed, so here we go.

Take two. And it was a banger of an episode as well. You really missed out.

I really, really fucked up. But it's funny because he did that before too, so I was expecting him to do that. And yeah, yeah.

But anyway, I'll try and keep you in your toes from now on. That's the only gimme you're gonna get.

Excellent, Excellent. Okay, so you are familiar with our very loose format here where we talk about what we are currently working on or have accomplished recently and then towards the end we set our goals for the next time we record, which maybe, possibly crossing fingers, might be all four of us, which would be cool. But let's start really quick because again, we're just doing this for the second time. Tell us about the storm. And I'm also very happy that you're not in Oz right now or barreling through the sky somewhere.

Thank you, thank you. I did my best to avoid that if I could. No, it's slightly less of a new story now that it's occurred because last time we recorded I was hours away from, I think, one of the baddest storms that we've had in the UK for quite some time, like a couple of decades at least. So I was obviously making jokes that I would get blown away, my house would, would have its roof torn off and trees would be flying everywhere, et cetera, et cetera. And yeah, in the end it kind of, it was a storm that kind of took away the power for most of the people on the island of Ireland. Like I think, you know, just, I think it's like half of all households, maybe two thirds had a power cut. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't, wasn't a fun time. A lot of trees getting knocked down, a lot of disruption, buildings damage, etc, etc, including my own roof which has, had had some damage to it. So yes, as a, as a fairly new homeowner, I'm really looking forward to a Roofing bill. But yeah, it's. Apart from that, nothing else. Too bad. Like, I was not blown away. No trees landed on me. It's all good.

Awesome. I'm very glad to hear it. And actually, when I thought about it, I was like, I mean, being in Oz, like, you know, I hope you're not in Oz. Interiority. And then I thought about it and I was like, no, actually, I mean, maybe that would be cool. So I don't know.

I would rock a pair of ruby slippers. Come on, like, tell me you can't see me in them. Like, just in your mind's eye.

Yes, yes. Oh, my God. Okay, so I've got the calves for it.

Sorry.

Okay, so trying to keep myself on track here. Okay, so you have a couple of really amazing projects in the pipe right now that we would love to hear about or as much as you can tell us about them.

Okay, yeah, sure. So, I mean, the listeners probably know who I am, generally speaking, right?

Probably, yeah.

So I. Yes. Well, I was in the audio actual play that we did for an RPG called Unspeakable Distance. It was a year or so ago now, when it's time.

I have no idea.

I have no idea. But that was something I participated in along with Sam and Jack. And I originated the character of Simmons in there. And we had a lot of interaction between our things. And obviously this has led to the genesis of the idea for Asan west. So. So, yeah, so I'm looking forward to hopefully reprising the role of Simmons in that sometime in the future. But, yeah, this is my connection to the whole behind the Locked doors sort of thing. Outside of that, I write audio fiction and I'm basically in the process of creating my own sci fi series. I'm currently writing the episodes as we speak and getting the production company set up and all that sort of thing. Hoping at some point this year to release a show called Sundered, which is a sci fi audio drama, which is very loosely based on my pandemic trauma and working through that, but also such themes as disability and what we owe each other in society and colonialism. And as you can probably tell from all of that, it is a comedy. So, yeah, gotta look forward to that. But yeah, no, I'm very, very excited about it because I've been writing for a number of different shows in the past, anthologies and things like that, and this is the first time I'm actually setting out with a concept of my own. And I'm very excited about it and very much looking forward to It.

I am too. I'm super excited for it.

Yeah. And then I've got a bit of a work on the side, bits and pieces. And I'm currently working on a as yet unannounced project for Bloody FM with Pacific Obadiah. I am a massive wuss. So why I'm writing for Bloody FM and their team of truly horrible people with really twisted imaginations, I don't know, I can barely sleep at night. But you know, I'm trying to bring my own spin to it, which is to completely undermine all of the horror and just make it as silly as possible. I think, I think that's gonna work out great. But yeah, like, yeah, it's a pretty interesting thing. I've never really done like a commercial production for like an actual podcasting network or platform before, so kind of the adjustment to that has been very, very interesting. Rather than just kind of like being somebody just wanders in, you know, does a bit of world building, writes a script, you know, like messes around in discord for a while. I'm having to do stuff like write art briefs for fairly well known artists and like just kind of rock myself back and forth through the imposter syndrome that comes with that. So yeah, it's a challenge, but it's really interesting and hopefully I'll pick up some of the twisted horror sensibilities of the people around me while I'm doing it. I know you're a horror freak, Sam.

I am. I'm a huge horror freak. I feel though, like these spaces where these horror stories are being written and created, we need people that aren't totally desensitized, sensitized by everything. Because we need to, you know, we need people that are going to be sort of disturbed by it or are going to be sort of scared to, you know, make sure, make sure that it works. Because I could write a horror thing or any of my friends that are into horror could write a horror thing or read a horror thing or watch a horror thing and they're like, yeah, that was cool. And like, we don't actually have like a barometer for like where is actually scary or not. So it's good to have the more like non horror folks kind of helping with that. And since you are so good, you are so good at the dichotomy of comedy and seriousness, I think that whatever you are cooking up for Bloody FM is gonna be frickin amazing. And it's gonna have that feel that you usually have in your stuff where you'll. One second you'll be laughing. Cause whatever's happening is so funny and what they're saying is so ridiculous. But then it will very quickly shift to something more serious and kind of. Kind of have to think about stuff. But then it'll switch back to being hilarious, like, two seconds later.

So, yeah, total dissonance is my trademark. Yeah.

Yeah, it really is. It really. You're so good at it.

Yeah, well, it's not really something to be. To be proud of. Like. Just. Just can't make up my mind what genre I'm in at any particular. No, I, you know, I do. I do kind of agree. Like, I think. I think it's interesting coming into, like, a. A sphere which is obviously audio drama's got a lot of horror in it. And, you know, some of the most popular shows are in that. Like, coming into it as someone who isn't traditionally kind of into that sort of stuff and trying to create is. Is very, very interesting. And I think. I think there is some value that I can bring to it. I mean, obviously I'm not familiar with all of the tropes and the ways of doing stuff, so I will probably understandably blunder into stuff that's been done like, like dozens and dozens of times before. But hopefully I will do that in a way which is a little bit different, and I'll do it in a way that I'm not afraid just because I'm ignorant. So, you know, like, it kind of gives a slightly different approach to stuff. But as a lot of my colleagues say, kind of like, in their opinion, horror and comedy go hand in hand. Like, you know, like, horror doesn't work if it's all one note or if it's all on the same level. You've got to be able to vary that up to actually kind of get the impact of this stuff, which is truly horrific. And having kind of comedy alongside it works really well, especially if it's something which endears the characters involved in the stories to the audience, which then makes the horrible stuff they're going through hit even harder because obviously you. You then care about these consequences and the stuff that's happening to them rather than the. Just the horror protagonists. You know, they're going to make stupid decisions, they're going to get torn limb from limb. Yawn, you know, it's. But, you know, and try obviously then, like, hopefully kind of like, you know, like, by building kind of like characters that are robust and have facets, then, you know, it just gives the really interesting kind of option of trying to tailor the horror to say something about the people themselves or like, you know, use it as a commentary on something larger which is affecting them, rather than it just be kind of like, oh, it's a scary clown. You know, it's actually saying something. It's kind of meaningful. And I think, you know. And that's the hook that's kind of dragging me in a bit. That's kind of going, oh, oh, okay, that's interesting. Yeah, okay, I like that. And then if I can do that to make things really fucking tragic and make people cry, then all the better. Cause that's what I want.

Oh my God, I'm so excited. I'm just vibrating in my booth right now, so happy.

That was a very long winded way of saying, yes, I'm a horror weenie. But, you know, I'm trying my best.

I really understand though, the being worried about being ignorant of the genre. Cause I think I've talked a little bit on this podcast about how I'm not a sci fi guy. And I just. Some of it. When you like sci fi and you are in it and you think up. I watch these conversations in one of our Discord channels about mechs and, you know, kind of just fun sci fi things on, like how parts of a ship work and blah, blah, blah. And it's like that's never something that I've been. I like it, but I've never. But it's like Star wars level. Like I don't. I don't really get into it and I don't really read any hard sci fi. None of that. If you want to talk to me about world building for fantasy, I could do that all day. But if you want to talk to me about like ships, like hyper drives, like I can do gobbledygook like Star Trek, I guess. But I really, it's. It's very difficult for me to make a conversation that west has realistic and sound like he knows what he's talking about, because I just don't have any idea. And so I am constantly worried that I'm going to because of my ignorance and I'm not gonna know tropes. I'm not gonna know stuff. And it's lucky that my character is very silly because he can use gobbledygooky words and AZ can respond with like, what the fuck are you talking about? And it's fine. So I can kind of hide some of my ignorance in there. But I do also have Scott and Jack to help me.

You've got support and you know, they're a very valuable resource and obviously you've got, you know, a lot of the other members of the, the Library of Curse Knowledge and Discord, definitely because they've all got insights. I mean some of them are very, very much into this sort of thing, which is, which is quite useful. I was going to say. I immediately knew you weren't like a sci Fi sort of guy like the time I gave you some dialogue which is quite heavy on all the stuff. And like, you know, I think, yeah, I believe you kind of like blue screened a little bit. Like you just, you really were not sure about what it was I was trying to get you to say. And I was like, you know, it's okay, it's fine, we'll walk through this. It's cool. Yeah, it's. But yeah, I mean, to be honest, I don't like me personally, I don't feel like I sit in the place of someone who's very well versed in a lot of the sci fi tropes. Like, you know, I'm not a huge reader of hard sci fi. I'm trying to, to do that more. I'm trying to be as diligent in my world building as I can. But you know what I, what draws me to Sci fi is mainly kind of like a chance to kind of like it's a new stage to just put characters on and explore problems which are, you know, prevail. Prevalent in our, you know, like day to day, normal, modern day lives. But in a, in a way that I can get to play around it, you know, in a little bit more and talk about it in an interesting way in a, in a grander scale perhaps, or kind of like, you know, just, just amp things up just a little bit. So my focus is very much on the characters and the character interactions and if I put them in a world which operates a little bit like this, how are they gonna play? I don't really involve myself too much in figuring out all the details of how it works, but what I'm rapidly finding out is that I really do need to do a level of diligence with my world building and make sure that it makes sense, even if I'm not saying everything on the page, which I'm, I am very much not. I'm very much someone who would prefer not to explain every single concept or piece of technology stuff that comes up within the fiction.

Yeah.

But I need to make sure that what it is I'm talking about in the world as I imagine it, it works and hangs together. For me, because what that does is it allows me to go, I can just drop these characters into this situation and then what they're gonna do and it's. It plays out naturally in that sense. If it doesn't, if there's like, oh, actually there's a massive contradiction there, then that's like a roadblock for me. That's like, oh, oh, crap. I'm not really sure where to go with this anymore because the world doesn't work and everything just kind of grinds to a halt. And I need to find a way to kind of grease the wheels or, like, hand wave something or, you know, ideally, like, find something that kind of makes it all kind of like, you know. You know. Yeah, just mesh together and continue onwards.

Yeah.

So, yeah, so I understand what you're saying. It's finding that middle ground, I think, like, not being too afraid to say, I don't know exactly how this works, but I just know that the effect that it has on these characters and the society they're in means that this happens. Which is either the thing you want or the nice surprise which you then throw into the script.

Yeah. I think that is what you're talking about is the plight of many a discovery writer or a pantser. Cause I come up against that all the time. And, you know, you're telling your story, you're putting your characters through the story that you want to put them through, and then you suddenly are like, oh, wait a minute. How long would that actually take to cook? Like, just very little things just in your world, and you have to kind of stop and be like, oh, okay. And when it's something fantasy, it's so much easier to just sort of make it up. Magic, it doesn't matter. And I feel like in sci fi, it's like, oh, I have to actually think about, you know, this is actually, you know, radiation or, you know, whatever, and. Or like, how long it takes to grow this plant in a. In a special, you know, thermoseal, blah, blah, blah. See, I can't even think of something as an example, so. But you get what I'm saying? Like, you gotta. You do have to build it out. You have to. Otherwise you come to a roadblock. And I'm the same way. If I come to something that sort of. It stalls the entire. The entire thing.

Yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, when we last recorded this. I'm sorry, listeners, you won't get to hear that. We did kind of like talk about our, you know, approaches to writing and kind of the, like, you know how we kind of get into things. And like. Like, the way I'd like to approach it is that I have a rough idea of kind of like, you know, the things that I want to have happen in the world, like, as kind of like waypoints, like, you know, like. Like milestones. So it's like, you know, like, roughly at this point in the story, like, this, you know, this event is going to happen. And, you know, I would like to get there if I can, but what I generally will do is, like, I'll have, like, a set of starting conditions and then have a rough idea of the characters and then just throw them in and just kind of go through the scenarios, either through writing on the page or in my head. Usually, like, I'll, you know, I'll play out kind of like, well, if they're here and this is happening to them and they're with these people, how does that sound? Like, what they're going to talk about? Like, where's the conversation going to go? What decision is going to be make? What's the emotions they're going to be feeling? And then that's. That's generally how it goes. So I don't. I don't tend to lead my characters by the nose. I just kind of give them this. The set of starting conditions and just see where they go. So, yeah, you know, it's. Yeah, it's kind of interesting when. When you're a panther in that sense and, you know, discovering things on the go.

Yep. Yeah, I'm the exact same way. I have the scene or I have a specific scenario that I want to have happen, and I'll base my entire story around that one scene. I've done it several times for several different, very, very long forms of writing. So, yes, I get it. I totally get it.

Yes. But I will say, as a counterpoint to you, to all your protestations about not being good at this, your entries for Unspeakable Distance, which I would highly recommend, anyone who's listening to this, who hasn't gone back and heard, like, all of the Sergeant west episodes that Sam did for that series, go back and listen to them, because they are fantastic. Like, they are really incredibly well realized. Like, the world building is great, and the characterization within that is fantastic. And, like, the extent that you went to, to kind of, like, bring in kind of additional elements to kind of help flesh it out, like, really astonished me. Like, I had, like, a little bit of a window into the production going on behind it, but I was surprised on a regular basis and I was like, oh no, oh no, I need to up my game.

We were scene partners. For anybody that doesn't know we. The actual play is messaging between two people and interiority was the person that I was sort of was messaging to back and forth. So it was like a long form conversation and also competition, like trying to just.

Which I thought I was winning at one point until.

Well, I felt the same way though, because you would write these. Absolutely hilarious, but also so sad. They were so profoundly sad. And it was so good. I live for like horror comedy and funny sad with a slash in between. I love that shit. And every single episode of yours was like, here I am, Simmons being so cute and I'm just a cinnamon roll of a person and everybody loves me. And then this terrible thing that's happening, I'm having to cope with it and it's really terrible. And did I mention that it's really terrible. And I was like, oh, it's so good. So, I mean, I don't think you. I don't think it was a competition because we both were super awesome and it was great. I love what we did. I love so much what we did. And I'm so excited that I get to expound. Expand, Expand that world and bring in.

I'm so looking forward to it. I'm so excited. And I think obviously, you know, what we need to say to all the listeners is if you haven't listened to Unspeakable Distance, then why are you listening to this? Go and listen to that now.

Right now. And go do that. So we made it through all of the basic questions and all of the what we're working on right now stuff. And we have not talked about the Simpsons. So.

No, we don't know if we did about half an hour of that. Yeah.

Last time, the first time we recorded this episode, we just talked about Simpsons for like 15 minutes. And I'm not even exaggerating. We also. I'm planning on. I have, I've now asked her so I can officially announce this. I have, I have asked Mel, another one of our co stars, lovely, lovely person, to come on as a guest and talk to us about her new. Her new project, which Interiority and I are actually both on. So that's gonna be really fun. And she's going to, she's going to give us the secrets of how to write an entire podcast season in two weeks.

Yeah, yeah, I would really like to know that because, you know, I think the over alternative is that Mel isn't actually fully human, which to be honest, like, you know, wouldn't surprise me too much at this point, but. But yeah, like, so, yeah, I want to get to the bottom of that if at all possible.

Yeah. So look forward to that.

And also, I really want to quiz her about kind of like why my. Why she's decided to make my character, like, largely non verbal in this show. Like, you know, I just, you know, like, what. What was the driving creative force between kind of like giving me like, you know, like five words to say it's fine.

But those five words are gonna be so good.

It's cool now. It's cool. It's fine.

Yeah. There's your little preview for what we're going to talk about probably next time or the time after that.

Yeah, I'm going to debut my Werner Herzog impression, which I'm going to insist on doing all of my lines in. You'll understand the relevancy of that when you actually hear the series.

Oh, it's going to be great. It's going to be so good. What would you like to try and accomplish before we get together again?

Well, I think last time I said I didn't want to be like blown away in a hurricane. I feel like I've achieved that, you know, like, so, like, I set a fairly low bar for myself, you know, I think obviously I would like to make some good progress on my show. I'm currently in the process of trying to get the first draft of the first episode really nailed down. It's probably gonna be like a double length episode, but I'm really gonna be using it as like a foundational building for the rest of the show that I'm going to be telling because obviously I'm a Discovery writer, so if I can get as much like hard foundation down in the first episode, I feel like it'll be a lot easier to build on that and create the rest without the constant worry that, you know, I've made a mistake somewhere. I'm going to need to change that, which will then necessitate another nine episodes to be changed afterwards. So, yeah, so I'm hoping to get that first episode at least, first draft of it done and in a state where I feel confident and I can show it to other people, possibly not in a state where I'm like, you know, this is final. You know, I don't want to make any more changes to it. More like, you know, like, I know this is crap, but, like, could you read it and tell me if there's anything of worth in there? Just so I can kind of, you know, continue onwards. So. Yeah. So, yeah, getting that into a place where I feel good about showing it to other people would be. Would be nice. Excellent. I'm hopeful I'll be able to get there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I have almost the exact same goal I talked about on the podcast a few times, that I was going to hand off everything to Jack and they were going to write the first couple episodes because I had a whole bunch of other projects that I was working on, and I was very, very full up. I didn't have a lot of time, but I have learned how to schedule a little bit better. And I am taking more breaks, and I'm taking days off once in a while, which is really nice. And I have time now, so I will take back the reins, I guess, and I will be. Before we meet again, I'm going to try and have at least a rough draft, something that I can give to people to read. Definitely. Not in any way polished in any form at all, but something that people can read like an actual story by the time we get together again, which I think is gonna be two Thursdays from now, I think. Yes. And, yeah, I get some feedback on it. Probably just the first, because we decided to make the pilot, like, a double episode. And I think that just to keep my sanity, it's just gonna be the first half of that pilot. Maybe I'll put some notes for the second one, but I'm just doing the first half.

Cool. I would like to add on another goal for myself. I would like to have perfected my Scott Paladin impression by the next time we're out. I don't think we'll actually have Scott on the episode, but I want to get in a position where should Scott show up, I'm able to essentially insult him to his face. Excellent. Yeah. No, I like it. I've been teasing this for a while, and, like, it's done very much with love, but, yeah, like, I would very much like to have an episode where both Scott and Jack are here and I get to try out a truly atrocious American accent.

Oh, that's amazing. That's gonna be so exciting.

Yeah, I just want to hear Jack laugh. That's what I live for. Like, I've said this before. Like, you know, like, Jack's laugh is, like, you know, is like my lifeblood. It's the oxygen I need to keep going.

The dopamine shot straight to your brain.

Exact. Exactly. Yes. So, yeah, if I can kind of. If I can make Jack laugh, then it Just makes the year, like, worthwhile. So fingers crossed we get to do that.

I feel you. I'm gonna add a little segment onto the end of this that I think we did once or twice, but I really like this. Do you have anything right now that you are reading or watching or whatever that you would like to recommend to the listeners?

Oh, good Lord. You can't just drop that on me.

Yes, I can. I just did.

No, no. How dare you.

I can actually go first.

Yep. Please do. Please do.

I right now am reading a book called Nether Station. It is by Kevin J. Anderson. If that name sounds familiar. He is the guy that's written a lot of. He does like Star wars and Starcraft and X Files books, and he's the author of the Dune prequels. And so even if you haven't read his stuff, you've probably, you know, been in circles where people know who he is. Anyway, it's a space horror because that is how I. That's how I read sci fi is if it's got a element of very, like, lots and lots of dread and existential dread and cosmic. Cosmic horror, I think, is the term for what this is. I do enjoy a. A crew in space so far away from Earth that they're, you know, basically lost and the weird stuff is happening. So I'm only about 100, 120 pages into it because I started it, like, yesterday. But it is so far it's awesome. And if you love sci fi horror, you might want to check it out.

That sounds very cool. I was a massive Star wars euro like, nerd in my youth, and Kevin J. Anderson is a name I very much recognize. So, yeah, yeah, that's. I'm tempted. Okay, so what I will say is it's a little bit of a cup out, but quite recently, I had the opportunity to present a show called Podmash, which is a very nice idea, which is basically kind of people get, you know, like, you creatives, like, you know, people who do their own audio dramas or actors or like, you know, sound designers, editors, things like that, get a chance to basically shout out an audio drama that they really like that they're not involved in. So they get to introduce an episode, get to talk for 10 minutes about why it's so good, and then, you know, like, they get to curate an episode to, you know, to give to people. And it's a. It's a really lovely way of kind of like spreading kind of like knowledge of what's out there. Because there's a lot of shows and like, you know, not everyone's got a lot of time, so it's quite nice to kind of have these sorts of. Kind of like personalized recommendations come through. So I did one recently for a show which I really like, which is called Traveling Light, which is a very cozy sort of sci fi show, which is essentially kind of a travelogue. But it's really nice because it's very humanist, it's very warm, but it's also not like. Like saccharine or like, you know, like, you know, just. Just too kind of like. What would be the word? Like, you know, like. Just like too sugary, like too sweet. Like, it's. It's kind of. It's got a, you know, a spine of kind of like, you know, actually kind of like commenting on the world as, you know, as we see it, albeit in a sci fi setting, but. But really kind of like leaning into kind of like, you know, everyone being kind of like their own kind of complex character, having their own foibles and things like that, but also like a core of goodness within them. So, yeah, that's. That's. That's really been kind of like one of the things I've been listening to a lot, just to kind of get me through the. The horror that we're all experiencing at the moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I don't really. I don't really know what else to do.

No, that's perfect. That's perfect. That's totally what I was asking for.

I'm sorry, that was really incoherent given that I actually presented a show about it and spoke at length about why it was a good, like, why I wasn't able to summon that in the moment, I have no idea. But there we go. Please go and listen to my Pomlash episode. I'm far better in it than I am right here. I wrote a script and everything.

Amazing. Yeah, go check it out. I listened to it. It's very good.

Thank you, son.

So, yeah, I think that we're about at time, so we already went through our goals. We already went through.

I'm certainly sick of my own voice. I think everyone else is way beyond that at this point. So, yeah, yeah, we've gone through goals. I've teased you at least once, which is another thing that I set out to do.

Yeah, you have to. It's very important. So I think we're good interiority. And I will definitely be back next week. Hopefully we have at least one of the rest of our group, but maybe both of them. I don't know. There's. There's a lot of stuff going on. But also we might have Mel sometime. Yeah, maybe. Maybe next time. Or the time after. So, yeah, everybody have a great week. Thank you so much for tuning in and we'll talk at you all next time.

Bye.

Bye. Bye, everyone. Thank you for listening to behind the Locked Doors. If you are interested in any of these or previous projects, you can head over to Library Horse, which will direct you to the Library of Cursed Knowledge website. If you would like to support the show, we have a Patreon. It's patreon.com cursedknowledge. Thank you again and see you all soon.