S1E23 - Another Scuffed Episode

Okay.

All right.

As long as you're recording, like, something and it's not just, like, blank air or, you know, if there's nothing. If we don't get any of your audio, I'll just see if I can find, like, what's it called? Peanuts? The trombone. That would be funny. Okay. So. Hello, audience, and welcome to a scuffed episode of behind the Locked Doors, where we didn't get any of our homework done and half of our audio equipment is not working or has changed or is weird. Some stuff's broken. Or if we sound really bad, no apologies, because this isn't, like, a high production thing. I don't care. So I am.

If we sound bad, we don't care.

Yeah, we don't care. I'm Scott Paladin.

I'm Sam Stark.

I'm Jack.

And God damn it. Well, we changed it, so now our rhythm's all off.

I know.

Yeah. I am supposed to be working on a werewolf noir audio drama thing, but I don't think I got anything done in the last couple of weeks. How about y'all?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm supposed to be working on Azen west, and I didn't get nothing done because I did do more brainstorming and I made more notes and stuff like that, but I didn't do whatever I said I was going to do, so I did not do my homework.

I'm actually gonna. I'm gonna open my document and see if I got anything done at all. I'll let that be. I'm not done. I'm. Or I did not get done what I wanted to do. That's for sure.

Okay. To be fair to all of us, we are for the listeners who don't know, which seems impossible because all the listeners are on all of our other projects. But we're working on the breathing space, like, show finale right now, and that's an undertaking. So if none of us get anything done, like, this entire month on our other projects, that's probably why.

Yeah.

Yeah. The. There was definitely a current of, like, let's not bother to, like. Like, nobody fought Scope Creep or, like, the one upsmanship and. Or what do we want to call acceleration of our, like, ambition in the finale? So there's just a lot going on in the finale.

Yeah, Totally fair.

I asked several people if I needed to cut things from my shit, and everybody was like, no, you should keep.

It as an editor. I actually don't mind all the stuff you guys put in. Like, it's gonna be fun. It's the Actual how we're putting it together, that's really hard on me because all of our scenes are running, supposed to be running together. And so I have scenes that have sound effects from the scene before mine. And I don't know what they are. I don't know how to get them. So I've been put. I'm gonna tell my story really quick. Cause this is really dumb. So somebody probably Ash put. For those of you maybe that are listening, that don't know who Ash is, he's like the head of the Breathing space. Whatever. He's like, okay, so tomorrow is the. Is the deadline for editing. And I just looked at my discord on my phone and I was like, what? What is what? And I looked at my calendar.

You and apparently the entire editing team.

Yes, I looked at my calendar and I was like, no, the what? The deadline is the ninth. What is going on? And so I read through everything and I was like, oh, God, okay. All right. The deadline actually is tomorrow, when I have a lot of stuff, which is all the time. I am very meticulous about when I plan to do things. Like, I'm like, this is the time that I do this, and this is the day I have blocked for this. And I'm very good at. I need this amount of time to do this thing. So what I had on my schedule was basically I was going to be doing my job, my actual radio job. And then I was going to do editing for breathing space. And I had hours allotted for it. I was ready to do the thing. And on my calendar I had the ninth as the. As the due date for it. And so I go to the. I go to the clinic on Monday, which is not the ninth, And I get in there and I'm like, hi, my name's Sam. I'm here to see blah, blah, blah. And they're like. And sorry, I guess trigger for like very, very, very small quick medical thing. I went to the labs to go get labs done because they said the next time you come in, go to labs first, get your labs done, and then check in for your appointment. So I go and I do the labs and I do all the lab stuff. And then I come back to the desk and I'm like, okay, ready for the appointment? And the girl's like, we don't actually have you in for today. And I was like, what? What are you talking about? So it turns out that I had switched my doctor appointed appointment and my. And the Breathing Space finale editing date. And so I sat at the clinic for like, 20 minutes for no reason. And I had a whole bunch of segments to do for breathing space that were due that night. And so I scrambled and I was sort of. But then I noticed that everybody else was also kind of scrambling, and there were a couple things I couldn't do until a couple other people did some things. So it turned out okay.

I think broadly speaking, the due date for the editing team translated to the start date for the editing team.

Yes. Yes, I think it did. Yeah.

It seems like everybody else was starting on that day. That's one of those things where I don't even know. There's no easy fix for just somebody following up ahead of time and being like, hey, where are we at? What's this thing? Here's our. Just reiterating to people that due dates need to happen and stuff like. Or, like, what's going on and all that stuff.

Well, that's part of the reason Ash puts them so early, like, earlier than they generally speaking, need to be. Which for. I know some people is, like, more stressful almost because it's like, don't tell me the fake due date. Tell me the real. And it's like, well, the real due date is, like, too late. Like, well, the fake due date is the real due date. For that reason.

Picking due dates is a really tough thing. Like. And I've.

Yeah.

Yeah. There are people out there because you really do need to build slack in where you're like, I. We've. We've come in across multiple scenarios where, like, something, you know, because a person was late or because it took a long time for us to get audio from somebody, you know, we. We still don't have all of the finale audio in. We're waiting on somebody, at least one person. And so, like, you just have to build that slack in. The part of the thing is really that we should have been. We should have started the finale sooner, and we probably should have been working on it a lot sooner, all told. And this whole. Should have, like, there should have been much more staged, like a stage rollout of this stuff's due, then this stuff's due, then this stuff's due. That. Yeah, like, rolling due dates, which we just. I think season four. I don't. The production was. Was a bit more. At least for me. I don't know. I don't know how everybody else was feeling. I was so underwater with Fable of the Family. I was like. I was not paying attention to the rest of the season, to the rest of production, basically. So this is. I'll Cop to the fact that I wasn't along being like, hey, you know, we should be doing this. I wasn't pushing anybody on like, let's get the finale started so we're not rushing later, blah, blah, blah. So like. But I was just like, I have my three hour thing.

You got a plate of stuff to do. Well. And it was like. I remember we even like started tossing around finale ideas much earlier in season four. And then the people who were still producing their season four episodes were like, oh my God, I can't think about this right now. We need to like finish the stuff we're working on before we work on new stuff. Which makes total sense. But that probably was the point at which we needed to actually start working on.

It's one of those things where like. Or we needed to just accept the fact like it's pretty possible that the timeframe between the end of the season and the finale really should have been larger because we just needed to open up the window and we might have to because like it hasn't really been discussed yet. But we have enough stuff that needs to get done. This is all. And because the whole flowing the things together and I normally I'm the one who does the assembly on the finales and I'm doing the assembly this time. But this time means I essentially have to sound design the entire finale. I don't have to do the sound effects.

Two giant episodes.

Yeah, yeah. And who knows how long they're gonna be at this point too. Cause I don't think I've even seen a fully assembled script because the way they were all done, broken down by scenes. So like, I don't know, I think they're. I mean they're. There's no way they can be less than an hour each. Almost very possible they could one of one or two or both of them could be two hours. So that's just. I gave a do or die date for a couple of weeks from now for like, if I do not have stuff right now, we're pushing it back. But even if I get everything by then, there's a really good chance I'm just going to have to be like, no, this is going to take too long. Or I'll have to farm stuff out and ask people to create ambiances for me or something. We'll have to figure it out. Part of the thing is, I was just going to say, so we do need to be getting this done. And there should be some pressure on people being like, this needs to be done, you guys need to get your audio in, blah, blah, blah. We do need to be like, putting pressure on people. But also I feel like there's a really, really good chance we're going to push the release date the way things are going.

What I was going to say is the amount of stuff we've had to push back release dates on is relatively small for the whole scale of the production. Yeah. If it turns out that this last giant finale that we're trying to do that's very ambitious and has very, very many moving pieces, is one of the very few things that gets bumped back in due date or in release date, I feel like that's still a pretty good track record overall.

Yeah. Yeah. And also, and also, I don't. It's not like we have been making a big deal about the day this thing is coming out. I don't. I mean, like, it's.

Yeah.

It's not like we've had a big announcement, we've got a party scheduled or anything. Like, it's just a. It's just the day that it's going to go out. So if we need to, it's not a big deal, but we do. That being said, having it like supposed to be coming out at like the end of this month basically does give us enough pressure to start being like, hey, y'all need to get this stuff done. You know, we need to get people moving on. You can see what happens when you tell people, oh, yeah, that's due in like three months. And then like three months go around and they don't start on it because we're all, you know, that gifted kid.

Yeah.

Like doing other stuff and whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's like no good solution for that that I've seen or like, no. No catch all solution. It's just like the kind of drudgery of really just like making a. Making a call one way or the other. And then like, you have to just follow up with people and make sure they're getting stuff done and everything. Yeah.

So many of the people we work with are ADHD having that. It's like if that due date is not being reiterated to me, like where I can see it every fucking day of my life, I will not fucking remember. And that's like just a reality of like working with a lot of brains.

Oh, yeah, yeah. This is one of those things where, you know, you don't. You don't know what you don't know until you're done, basically.

Yeah.

If I was restructuring this from the. I mean, there was no way to have done this from the beginning just because of the way things worked out. But if I was formalizing things better next time around, I would do something like create a head editor position, like a chief editor or lead editor or something like that. Somebody who like very specifically has less moment to moment load where it's their, their job is not like, basically you need a manager for this where it's not on necessarily. And I think like somebody like Ash, who is really great at the admin stuff but doesn't touch editing, doesn't know what needs to be done and doesn't. Hasn't got a good or doesn't have a. Doesn't have all the resources and stuff. So somebody who was one of the chief editor, one of the main editors should have been like, okay, you have two fewer episodes a season. But your job is also to like keep track of what everybody else is doing to answer all the questions that they're doing. You're the one who proves everything. You know, stuff like that. You know, get a final edit pass and all that stuff. Yeah. Which we just haven't had that position. It's been basically like, you know, when, when you know, well, you know, when you've got your thing done, you turn it in. That's fine. We don't have like a person who's like, here's your due date, here's what needs to be done. Here's the stages that we go through. Here's our sound design. Here's what like things like we don't have a standardized loudness measurement. Like, yeah, like I go in usually and do a rough loudness measurement on everything just to make sure our episode to episode median is about right. But like there should be standards for that kind of thing. And that's the kind of thing that only an editor would know to set and then follow up on and be able to. So it's. If I was doing this again, especially with as large a team as we've ended up with, where we have.

Six.

People, seven people doing editing, something like that, there just need. Somebody's gotta be in charge of it, unfortunately. And that's an annoying job, but somebody should probably be doing it.

It'd be annoying, but it would also be really awesome. Like being able to go to somebody, be like, hey, what's the normalization on this? Hey, do we have ambiance for this thing right here? Hey, I'm done. Can you check it? That would be pretty cool.

And being able to. And like obviously on a, on a, on a thing where everybody is working for free, basically, because this is all of. This is all volunteer cast and everything means that, like, when, you know, Sam, when we ask you, can you do some editing? You're like, okay. And you roll up with whatever tools you've got in the. If it was. If this was a big production, I could be, you know, where I was paying for people and I was buying licenses. I could be saying, hey, everybody's got to run audition. Here's our copy of it, or whatever. And that also leads to some really cool things. Like, I could say, here is the effects chain that we use for. Here is our store of sound effects, and here's our stuff. And we can have standardized. Here's a template. Oh, man, I cannot tell you I'm going to have to switch to Reaper. But the fact that Audition has new project templates where I can just hit a button, and I've got one set up for Breathing Space. So when I create a new episode of Breathing Space in my editing software, I have all of my tracks and my sidechains all set up and everything like that. Being able to hand that to a new editor and be like, here you go, here's our thing would also be super luxury. That would be like, a luxury. It would. Yeah. But it's also the kind of thing you can kind of when you're doing this ad hoc over time, where, you know, first you start off with, like, two editors, and then slowly you grab. Oh, here you come in. Okay, well, what do you use? You use Reaper. Okay. I don't know what Reaper is, but you can, like, do your thing with it and stuff like that. It's like, if you're doing a giant formal organization, then, like, you. There are some advantages to doing that. But, like, we wouldn't have been able to do it from the beginning. I now know what we should have done. But we, like, obviously we couldn't have done it that way.

Yeah. How would you know?

And it turned out. Everything turned out great with what we did have. So it's very impressive.

Oh, yeah. I mean, like, the fact that everything works as well as it does is a testament to how good all of the people working on it are. But, like, you know, like I said, at some point, I think I went and I down. I ripped everything off of our first two seasons at one point and had to run it through a normalization curve just on episode to episode basis because I knew that, like, I was listening back, and I was like, oh, I'm having it. Like, my episodes are like, Five decibels louder than Eric's, you know, just because of the way whatever loud, whatever luffs were aiming for at the end of the day. And I was like, okay, so I just went through and like did a pass on that at one point. And so it's sort of those like, oh, yeah, this is a dumb thing that we probably should have been catching, but. Oh, oops.

But again, like those of us who listen and do the like the early listens of stuff and don't know that there's like a specific decibel, like medium.

That each episode should be, only an editor, somebody who's dealt with it would know to even ask that question. And the kind of thing where if you are working, if you're an editor working on your own, then like you, you. You would never. You do it all. You always do the same. So it never would occur to you that your episodes would be noticeably different from one to one, you know, because you're doing. You're starting with the same inputs, you end up with the same outputs. You know, it would be very similar. All of your episodes should be very similar. But the fact is that my workflow is very different than Sam's, who's very different than Eric, who's very different than Aaron. And so like all of us would end up with different outputs and stuff like that. So it's, It's.

Yeah.

And you wouldn't know that until you get into it and find out about it. But it's something to remember with regards to doing this in the future or if I'm going to start all of us, if we're going to start working with additional team members or whatever. I don't know how that's going to look out right now for our various projects, but it's something.

Yeah. I was going to ask, are you thinking about bringing on more editors for It Takes a Wolf or are you planning on doing literally all of it by yourself?

My thought process is that I would love. It depends a lot on like, what the production ends up looking like with things like funding and stuff. Because again, I'm still in the mode of like, I think I want to pay people for this. So if I have money to pay editors, then I will like, probably want to utilize some of that. But I think that broadly speaking, it's much more of like, here is. I would be handing some. I would doing like, I'd have. Be having them do dialogue edits.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

Get a dialogue editor, getting dialogue edits and Then having me do the sound design, I tend to be. That's where I tend to feel like I have a bigger or a greater impact on something was with sound design rather than with. I feel like I can communicate to someone else how they should be doing a dialogue edit. I'd have a harder time being like, I need you because. And part of that's just my process with sound design. Because what happens is I'm like, I need a sound. And I stand up in the room that I'm in and I look around and I'm like, what can I do right now to make the sound of that thing?

Yeah.

And you can't really do.

Yeah. You are a Foley guy, which is rad.

Yeah. I mean, it's a good. It ends up with some good products, but it's definitely not something I can translate easily to other people.

Yeah. But having the dialogue editor. And then it works really well for Shelterwood so far because I do the dialogue editing and like, I sometimes get notes from the directors or like, we really, really liked in scene 18, part whatever we wanted the second take of everything, you know, and then I put the dialogue. And it's a time consuming part of sound design. So then when I give it to the next person, which is usually Steven, he just kind of checks over everything, makes sure stuff is tight. And then we give it to the actual sound designer, Brad, and then he does all the sound effects. And I think it works really well because then he just. He does it all. And so it's all really sounds all the same.

And it also. It lets you. I know that I get distracted with one when I'm doing the other a lot. So like, by cording it off and being like, this is not your job, then it lets you just kind of like run with the one thing I am thinking about. I want to. This is maybe slightly off topic, but we are, you know, we're talking about breathing space. And this is one thing that I think breathing state. The breathing space grew. Specifically, I'm going to praise the hell out of Ash specifically for creating this culture, which is holy hell. Is it nice to work with an organization that gives people praise? Yeah. Give you positive feedback? Like, just. Yeah. Just being like, thank you for doing this. This is good. I'm so glad you did that. Like, saying that to the people who are working for you makes such a difference. Like, oh, my God.

Especially when they're all working for free.

Yeah.

We're just doing it. Cause we love doing it. And so it's like really nice to all be bought in on that, like, praising each other.

Even when you're paying somebody, though, I'm gonna. Yeah, okay. I'm going to be a little bit somebody who. People who know me probably can figure out who I'm talking about. But I have done some work with another production team.

Oh, there's tea. Tea. You guys get ready, get ready.

I'm going to be trying to be nice. I. Through the entire process of working with this organization, I at no point felt like I was doing things correctly.

Oh, my gosh.

I got no feedback except for when they needed something changed because it was done wrong, usually by me. Right. Like, so down to, like. Yeah, basically at every point in this process and to the point where, like, when I would get tasks from them, it was, here is the task with no instruction about, like, specifically what they're looking for.

Love that.

Yeah. It's like, it would be like. Yeah. And so I found that incredibly difficult to work with.

Yeah.

For me personally, I do have some stuff in my own mental wherewithal, like my own. My own headspace that's. That's actually kind of a trigger for me is like feeling like I'm doing stuff wrong. But like, yeah, totally working with a group and this is a commercial relationship. So, like, they're paying me. So in. In, you know, by one amount of logic, hey, you're getting paid, you know, you're just doing your job, you know, so who. What do you need to be coddled for? But literally just being told, like, when you do something correctly and they like what you're doing, like, that is incredibly important for, like, dealing with people.

Well, yeah, because otherwise how are you supposed to know if you've done anything right.

Exactly.

You know what I mean?

Yeah. If the only feedback you ever get is, oops, you dropped the line here, or blah, blah, blah, or the take that you gave us on this isn't working. Can you do it a different way? But never. Oh, yeah, that worked perfectly. Oh, I really liked that. Oh, you know, thank you so much for doing this. This is perfect. Like, nothing. Literally just like radio silence or could you please correct this? And it's like, oh, my God. Oh, man, that. Yeah, very taxing.

That's rough.

Yeah.

Well, you know, like when you're in a class in college or whatever, and you're like turning your homework in all semester or your papers or whatever, and then you don't get any of them back graded until the end and you're like, how the hell am I supposed to know how I'm doing in this class or whether the professor likes the stuff that I'm turning in, if they never turn it back to me with any, like, comments on it or anything other than, well, you got a bad grade on this. I'm like, okay, what did I do wrong? What's going on?

Yeah, yeah. How am I supposed to. How am I supposed to correct things if I don't get any feedback? But how am I supposed to feel if the only feedback I get back I get is when things go wrong?

Like, there's a mistake here. Yeah, that's really annoying.

I'm sorry if you put it. Sorry if you put it also in context of just general relationships or even parenting, if you are only going to talk to your kids or interact with your children when they've done something wrong, that's neglectful. That's not how a relationship works. And I've never been the type. I've never been the. Well, you're getting paid so you can be abused. I've never been cool with that.

Yeah, that sucks.

It's like, you're a person. You're not a robot. You still need to have interactions. You still need to have good and bad feedback and you can't take the excuse of what you're being paid for it. That's just really shit. I'm sorry that you had to deal with that.

No, no, that's the, that's. I'm, I, my, my approach to it is that I am, like, learning. Oh, yeah. I've seen a really good way that this didn't work.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which is, which is all right. Um, but, yeah, but, but in that context, I want to praise specifically, again, specifically Ash for creating the environment, because that was something he did. I don't know if he did deliberately, but he did a lot of it very early. Like, the moment that we brought people on and started talking about it, there was a lot of feedback immediately about how good people were doing and that, you know, what specifics about that? Like, I like this. This is amazing. Oh, my God, you guys are magic. Can you please, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it makes such a difference overall, especially because it started early and it's been so consistent the whole way through that. Like, that's the culture of, like the breathing space server is that, like, people have a very warm approach to each other's work and a very nice. What's just. Yeah, just an enthusiasm for everybody else around you and that is makes working with breathing. Like, if we were. We don't pay anybody because we can't pay anybody because we have very little money and none money. And we. We pay. We pay for some stuff, but, like, the broad majority of the labor that has been done on breathing space was not unpaid. A lot of that by myself and Ash, of course, but also, like, huge amounts of it by our other editors and our writers and our actors and all those. And so, like, you can't get people to come back if you don't, like, tell them that you, like. Like, you, like, you foster a relationship. But even. Even, you know, in a business relationship, it's about how, like, how you manage people. And that's one of the ways. And I did not realize how good it was. And I want to. So I want to specifically say that, like, Ash did a really good job at doing that.

Really amazing. And he concur, relentless about it.

Also, Scott, I think that you should start another podcast, and it should be just you, and it should be things I learned, like how to start a podcast or, like, what you need, the tools that you need, and watch out for this or whatever.

I mean, that's kind of what this is. I mean, like.

Yeah, it's not. Not this.

I brought y'all on specifically because the whole point of behind the Locked Doors is that this is an unvarnished, real look at what it's like to start projects. And I'm not, like, when we get done with the writing and start casting and stuff, I'm not stopping this. I don't think we're going to give background updates and stuff, so. Yeah, we're not.

Yeah, I want to. I think that's going to be valuable for not only us, but whoever it is that is listening.

Yeah. For all, like, nine listeners.

Yeah, it's great.

Quill, specifically. Hi, Quill.

Yeah, high interiority.

Yeah. Yeah, we got some people we do.

Need to bring on guests, though. I think we need to start getting some guests.

We gotta get Mike in here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I've talked to some people and I've made this offer around in person to some people before. In person, one on one. But I'll mention it here that if you have a project that you are working on and you want to come talk to me or. Or Jack or Sam about it, and then, you know, give us an explanation of what it is and all that stuff, and then we will help release it at a future date for like a. Okay. By this date, I will have it done or I will have something going. Like, this will be the casting day if you want to make A deal with us so that we'll have. You can put something on out there, or even if you want us to put it out immediately as a sort of declaration of here's a thing I'm working on, you know, blah, blah, you can come talk to me about it or whatever. That's totally great. Like this. This. This is. This is us. But if other people are interested in doing a project or talking about their upcoming projects behind the scenes. Yeah, please do. I'd be happy to have you.

Especially if you feel like that'll give you the accountability to start producing by whatever date.

Yeah.

And you're like, well, I've now said this into a microphone and it's on the Internet where people can find it. And that's going to galvanize me to do the thing.

By the time I said, I'd be.

Happy to do that, I'd love to do that. Especially now that I've between seasons on other projects.

Well, almost. We gotta finish the fucking finale.

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Okay, let's do a little bit of a check in on how we're feeling about the next couple of weeks for the projects. We're nominally here about as in west, and it takes a while.

I feel pretty good about things because if you look at the sheet that has all of our finale stuff, most of mine are green. So good.

Oh, great.

Hell, yeah.

Yeah. So mine are very purposefully not full of sound effects. And so it was like dialogue, edit, cleanup, and then like a couple footsteps here and there, a curtain draw. Like it was very light.

And then like, I'm doing sound design on one of yours too. Yes. Because I barged my way in.

Well, it's your.

It's your.

It's your baby. Yeah. It's a specific effect that you had done before in a different episode. So you were like, I already know how to do it. I know how to make it sound the same.

So that was for. I don't mind talking behind the scenes behind here, but we're bringing back the digital ghosts from season one. And that was one of the most fun things I ever had doing sound editing because apparently I like destroying audio. It turns out, like, I really like messing with it and screwing it up.

And you're good at it. It sounded amazing.

There is literally a point in the sound design for that where you hear a PDF file being played. Like, I took. You can. Fun fact. You can take Audacity and you can open any file and it will interpret it as an audio file. You can like, say, Whoa, hey. Try to open this PDF or the JPEG or whatever and like you'll get. It'll. It'll just look at the ones and zeros and say, I guess I'll make sounds out of these.

Oh, that's cool.

I want to hear what lost JPEG sounds like. Can you play it for me?

I'm sorry. What if I could be bothered when I go to edit this tonight? I will see if I can get lost JPEG imported. Probably be a lot of static. We'll find out. But if future Scott is willing to do it, it'll be inserted here.

Okay, awesome. But yeah, for me, I think that the rest of the finale editing is going to go pretty quick. I'm just waiting on some avw and then I actually I mentioned a couple. It's probably a couple months ago now that I had gone full voice acting. Tomorrow Friday is my last physical day in the office of my old job because they had to find somebody to replace me. So I will, starting next week, literally be able to. I can just do my own schedule all the time and I'll have so much, so much time.

Well, congrats.

I mean not so much time, but so much more time than I have now. And so that's gonna be really cool. Cause again, I had everything planned out very well, but I switched the doctor's appointment. But I also in DMs this last week, Jack and I had the same thought, had the same brain a little bit.

Yeah, yeah.

And so we had some cool like yeah, yeah and this and oh yeah, yeah, yeah and that and that. So it's still happening. It's just nothing's going down on paper yet.

Look, the little guys are in my brain. They're running around, they're running around, they're bouncing around.

You're putting them in a Tupperware and shake and Shake gun, turn them into shake and Shake.

Yeah, absolutely.

What was it? What's the name of the stuff where you put the breading on the chicken and the like ready made one? My brain's Shake and Bake. Shake and bake.

Yeah. But once the finale stuff is done, I think that Jack and I will be able to come on here and we could probably just blah blah, blah about Azen west for a little bit.

Awesome, that'd be great.

We can be like full Azen west mode after this finale's done.

The thing I'm. I don't have any specific goals because like I said, I'm gonna have to find out what, editing the what doing the final assembly on the finale looks like. Because it's. Again, who knows how long it's going to be and who knows? I mean, like, I know that there's 25 or 28 minutes worth of one scene in one of those episodes. No, do not apologize. We. We were encouraging you the entire way. I just know that it's there. So I don't know how long that's gonna look. And I get. Again, I have to kind of sound design. I don't have to sound design completely because I'm not doing sound effects. I'm just doing ambience. But knowing me, ambiance can be, like, very involved. So who knows? We'll find out what that looks like. The thing I'm going to try to do, though, is I really don't want to bury myself in this other. In breathing space, this last thing for a few weeks, and then find myself coming back to. It takes a wolf and have nothing have happened at all in it. I want to have, like. I don't care how little progress I make. I just need to make some progress between that. Like, it's one of those things. Like, I can't. I can't let it. I'm not giving myself permission to just, like, let it slide. I need to, like, keep it in mind and keep it on my. On my table so that I'm not having to, like, relearn where I was, find my place or anything like that. I need to keep it present. So I'm going to keep. Still working on it somehow. But I don't know what that looks like. I'm going to do what I can, basically. This one I want to. And I don't care how little I get done. I just have to get. To not let it. Not let it fall to the. To the back burner.

Yeah.

That's so fair.

Yeah.

Cool.

Okay.

All right, then. Well, we will catch everybody in two weeks. Then we'll see where we're at.

Bye, everybody.

Bye, everybody.

Bye. Bye. Thank you for joining us for behind the Locked Doors, a library of Cursed knowledge production podcast thing. I don't know if you are interested in any of these projects. You can head over to Library Horse, which will eventually redirect to a webpage once I make it. You know, if you want to support the podcast, we do have a Patreon. It's patreon.com cursedknowledge. See y'all next week. No, wait. See y'all in two weeks.