S2E18 - Scott's Lobster is too Buttery, his Ice-cream too Mint Chocolate Chip, his Ass too Fat

I am.

Normally my goal is, despite the fact that I have screwed it up the last, like, I don't know, six weeks or six times that we've done this is to, like, get these out relatively quickly. But this time I'm gonna for sure wait until after the casting calls closed because I'm gonna.

Yeah.

Because I. We'll probably talk about stuff a little bit as my updates, but. Yeah.

Yeah, I want to hear all the updates.

Yeah.

Yeah. I guess on that. That note, we'll just sort of roll into it. Hello and welcome to behind the Locked Doors. A conference call that could have been an email disguised as a podcast. I am Scott Paladin. I am working on It Takes a wolf a. I'm not gonna fuck it up this time. I just had a sudden pang of anxiety because I screwed it up last time. A horny werewolf noir audio drama.

And I'm Sam Stark. I just now, just now remembered to turn on my recording. So yay me.

That's okay. Riverside handles it.

Exactly. Am working on some stuff as in west and store 236. You can tell I'm totally ready for this recording right now.

Yeah. Really prepared. Really on top of it. Hi, I'm Jack. It's spooky season, so now I'm Jack. I don't know, Skellington. And I'm also working on Addison West.

And I'm Mike, AKA Interiority. And I'm working on a horny noir space podcast called Sundered.

Yay. Wait, it's horny? I didn't know it was horny.

I mean, like, you know, I'll put some horny stuff in there.

It's fine.

Scott made it look so easy that now I.

Have a talent for it.

I mean, yeah.

It'S built into my bones. I can't be anything else as hard as I try. Yeah. So let's do our updates here. I was supposed to be thinking about my trailer, and I just didn't do that at all. I got distracted by other things in life and that's just fine. That's not time pressing. That was more just a time.

Were the other things Hades?

Yes, a little bit Hades too. But also going back and realizing that the lines I put out in the conlang that I wrote were grammatically incorrect. Stuff like that. So that was fun. Um, we'll have to talk about the Kong Lang some other day. But I'm also sitting here watching auditions roll in one at a time as they literally every time somebody does it and I'm at my desk, I See, a notification that's like anonymous has submitted to your form on the thing.

So you are stronger than God to be getting those notifications and not just going and listening to them immediately.

I. I'm really pleased because there were. I saw a couple names come in that I was like, that I now know. Sight unseen or not sight or ear unheard. Is that right? Hearing unheard. I know that a couple of those roles. I'm like, okay, that person, they will be good enough. Like, I know they're good enough. I will know that they're good. That's the person to beat. Just hearing the name and seeing what they put in on. So a couple of those people finally went in. Yeah.

So that's where I'm at. I want that to be me someday. Like, you see my name come in and you're like, okay, as long as you're better than Sam.

They can do better than Sam. Great. And if not, Sam will kill it.

Yeah.

Mm.

Speaking of, Zam, how did you do with your homework?

Jack and I actually had a really great meeting a couple days ago.

We fucking killed our homework.

Fucking killed it. It was great. Well, no, I didn't actually do what I said that I was gonna do, but I did.

We did.

But the. Yeah, sorry, let me back up a little bit. The part that I did with Jack fucking killed it. Definitely.

Yes.

And we'll get to that in a second. I'll just go over really quick what I did not do. I think last time we were together, I said I was going to finish the sound design for the first episode of Stor 236. And I actually did the majority of it. I'm really happy with what I've done. And the beginning, the first scene of the episode, it's the most important because it's the first thing everybody's going to hear that's very, very sound intense. It's like sound design intensive because there's a bunch of stuff happening. And so I got all of that done. So that was the hardest part of the episode. And it's all sound designed. It sounds pretty good. I just need to do some level stuff and we're good to go. The rest of it is like plugging in music and maybe putting in like a. Like a receipt paper crumpling or something. Like, it's not that intensive. So I feel like I've got about like 85% of the episode done. So not that bad. But I wanted to be finished by now because I have a Penguin Random House book that I have to finish before. So I'm kind of going crazy, but I think I have enough time to get everything done. But anyway, with Jack though. Jack and I had a great time.

It was really. Yes, we had a great time. We had planned on sitting down and talking through the next little arc of as in west, like the end of our little, like, child stowaway on the ship arc and then the like, heist arc. And we did do that. We were. How long were we on the phone? Like a little over an hour.

Yeah, talked.

I. Damn, I kind of wish we had recorded all of that, but we didn't think of it. We took notes though. And so we like, yeah, kind of bullet pointed out the next couple of episodes and divided those bullet points up so we know who's writing what and kind of fixed it so that we don't have to wait on each other to complete that stuff. Like we can just put the pedal down and go. And on that note, I have banged out the first couple pages of the next episode. So we're. We're ballin. We're doing it. Awesome.

I was able to. The most important thing for me was I was able to sort of iron out some questions that I had because in our skeleton of like, how the story basically goes, there was a whole bunch of things where I was like, ah, does this make sense? Because it's really important to me that characters within a story make realistic decisions and like, have realistic, you know, hesitations about things. And like, your characters need to act like real people and so believable. So there was. There was a couple things that I was like, ah, crap. Because we have them on what's basically a UPS truck, but it's a spaceship and there's a. There's, you know, a part they need because it's breaking down, it's an old truck, blah, blah, blah. And there was so much inside my brain that was like, why don't they just steal another ship? Like, this is so dumb. Why don't they just get off this dumb mail ship and find another ship ship. So I had to sort of walk with Jack as Jack, you know, led me through reasons why they would not. I was like, okay, this makes sense. Because I just could not in my. In my brain, why would they stay on a ship that's broken when there's more ships? So we figured out, and the answer.

Is because all the other ships at this port they're at are like cruise liners and like giant ones that you need a huge crew to fly or.

They'Re military or they're military.

We can't leave the military right now. We're all fugitives.

Yeah. You know, or they'd be like a small repair ship that wouldn't be able to go far enough for like their next destination. So it, it is plausible. I just don't want people to listen to the show and be like, why the are they still on this ship? This is so dumb.

It's like, why didn't they steal a better one?

Yeah, yeah. But little, little. I mean, not little, but like things like that where I was like, oh, we need to make realistic decisions. And I, I think we, I think we pounded out like three of those or something. So I feel way better.

Several little like narrative issues that we needed to solve, we solved. Oh, and the other thing we did was talk Sam out of continuing to revise the first two episodes.

Sam was like, so should I go.

Back and like beef those out? I feel like they're too short. And I was like, stop. Hold everything. That's how we draft through and then revise.

That's how I, that's how I write though. And I'm so glad to have Jack who like, my stuff is just too much. Like, I write way, way, way too much and then go back and cut shit out later. And so I love.

Which you can totally do. If it's like that you are working on. That's your thing. And you're like, I have the time and energy and space in my life to draft three or four times the length of stuff that I need and then cut back. But when you're collaborating it, it pays to think about efficiency.

Yeah.

And like, what is the most efficient way to use your time, especially when you're really busy. You know what I mean?

And with collaboration, it's so nice because usually when you're by yourself, you get excited about things as, you know, as they come. Or like you, you get excited about whatever you get excited about and you have to kind of follow the excitement or you have to like really push yourself to like get this other thing done that you have to get done. We saw that a lot with Scott in writing, in Riding the Wolf. So the wolf, that's what I've been calling it around my house because I can't call it horny werewolves because my 8 year old be like, you have a story. What does that mean? Yeah. So the wolf, the wolf show. But when you are with a collaborator, you can get excited about things that like, progress it forward faster or like in a more like helpful way. Because when we were done talking about things at first. I was like, I don't know if I can continue. I don't. Because I don't. Like, I only like writing linear. Like, I only like writing from the beginning to the end. I don't jump around usually. But since I have Jack filling in stuff and doing other episodes, I can. I can jump to the heist episode.

If I want to. Yeah, do the part you really want to do. Fill up to the point that you're excited about. Like, it's so nice.

It's so nice. It's like what I've always wanted. Like, I just skip ahead to the part that I want to write and somebody else writes the rest of it. Somebody else does the other parts.

It works great.

Yeah. So it was a really amazing hour, and I have a whole bunch of notes and I have a fire underneath me to write more, which is nice because I haven't for this project for a while because I've had so many years to do.

Poor thing. You were stuck on that little bit of backfilling we wanted to do at the beginning of the last. And I was finally like, okay. So I think since we know exactly what's going there. You even did write it once before and it got lost or whatever. So we know what's going there. Leave that blank for now. We'll come back to it. We'll hit that on the second pass.

Yep. Yep.

So that's us. Anyway, Mike, how'd you do?

Well, I mean, funny you should say all that. Cause I actually had, like, a really productive meeting scheduling with my head writer and he failed to turn up. So I'm gonna fire that guy. Yeah, just, you know, I just. You didn't even show, like, you know, not even. Just, like, bringing nothing to the table. Just didn't. Wasn't even there.

So.

Yeah, so things stalled slightly, partially because I've been busy doing other things, which were only really put into motion at the recording of the last episode of this particular podcast. So. Yeah, so I'm kind of a little bit swamped with other concerns at the moment.

Yeah. You guys on your plate. Which is valid.

Yeah.

All my own fault. But, you know, you know, it's. I feel like it's going to turn out to my benefit in the end, but.

Yeah, it's just called prioritizing.

Yeah, exactly. Progress on the project, not so much. I mean, and to be fair, like, I. Like, every single, like, interaction I've had online, which, you know, there have been many over the past two weeks, has been like, oh, I've just finished auditioning for It Takes a Wolf. Isn't that amazing writing? It was so much fun. Isn't it great? And I've been like. There's been, like, a gradient curve of my kind of enthusiasm for it because at the start I'm like, yes. No, it's amazing. Like, obviously, we did the table read. It's fantastic. And then by the time we get to, like, 30th person to say, I'm like, yeah. No, Scott's. Yeah, great. Yeah.

Love that guy.

Love that guy. Definitely don't want to strangle him with my bare hands right now.

Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, sure.

Look out, Scott.

Definitely seen this enthusiasm from any of my projects in the past. Cool. Great. Yeah.

That said. Well, okay. No, just kidding. I was going to say at the time, you should all go get your auditions in, but at the time that you're going to hear this audience, it will be too late. It will be closed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I am. I am very specifically not going to put this episode out until it's done because partially because I don't want anybody's decisions to be affected by what I was going to say, which is that we have. We're currently sitting at 153 auditions right now, and that is. I am staring down the barrel of all having to do all of that work now.

Yay.

Yeah.

This is the bummer, isn't it? Of not a collaborative team production. Because all of that work is your problem.

All me.

So.

But that's a good problem to have. Having many auditions is a good thing.

It is, yeah. It's. It's a. An issue of. Or was it. It's. It's like a humble brag. Right. I really do feel like, oh, shit, how am I. How much do I have to do? But also it's because a bunch of people have. Have submitted, which is amazing. I am. I have to figure out how I'm going to do this because I have to go through everybody and then I have to. I'm going to be scheduling interviews for it as well, so that I can actually talk to people and do a vibe check before I cast certain. Certain things. So that's just going to be a lot of work. And I'm. I have to, like, break it down, I guess, systematically and, like, listen to whatever, however many hours of. I wonder if I can find out how many hours of thing I have real quick.

Actual audio files you have. Yeah. I'd be so curious to know because some people really get in and out with an audition file. There's no chit chat at the beginning. They just say their name and they read the stuff. And some people are like, let's hang out for five minutes before I record any of the sides.

Yeah, hopefully there's not that many.

No shade to those people. I've listened to those auditions and enjoyed them. But yeah, it does add more time to the pile of stuff. Oh my God, my computer fan is crazy loud. Sorry, audience. If you can hear the whirring noise, there's nothing I can do to get rid of it.

When we did the auditions for store 236, Mel had a couple of people kind of also listening. And we didn't have any, like, obviously we didn't have any like choosing power or whatever, but we were able to like filter through some stuff pretty quick. Like if you, if you find somebody that's just 100% not a fit. Oh yeah, like, you can be like, hey, so this person, this person, they're good, but not for this character. Or hey, this person, you know, didn't. Didn't listen to any of the instruction and are saying their own goddamn lines. So do you want to even listen to this one? You know?

Yeah.

So you could always have a couple people listen in.

Also a little pre filtering.

Yeah.

Or if you're like, no, I genuinely want to put my own ear holes on each one of the minutes of this pile of audio, then more power to you. But that's a lot of minutes.

Yeah, yeah. No, I. In the past it has been. It's usually like when people aren't a good fit or if their audio quality isn't up to snuff or, you know, like it's. It's usually pretty quickly to get like the, like the very specific nos are usually. You're right. Her very quick to make that decision. So you can, you can filter stuff out really quickly. But I think this will be the most audio files I will have to listen to in a single session. Not session, but for a single project, you know, I think. So there is a. There is such a thing, real thing as ear fatigue where like after a while you're. If you're really listening to stuff. So I'm probably gonna have to do like multiple, multiple passes, I guess where I go through, I listen to like, do, you know, first cuts, then go back to second sets. When I've done casting in the past, I always like to run a spreadsheet at the same time so that I can, as I'm listening to each one, make notes about here is what this one is in my head. And then I usually end up giving people grades. Basically. It's the only way my brain can process it. I'll be like, okay, A plus, B minus, blah blah, blah. Which feels weird because it's, you know, like, I don't know, it feels kind of judgy. But also at the same time like I'm literally judging. You can't get away from the fact that you are judging people getting a.

Bad grade in audio drama.

But yeah. So there's no.

The important thing listeners is that you're not getting a bad grade. Scott is doing this for himself only. Like the people getting the parts don't see the grade. Like it's not.

I wouldn't ever. It's always for internal use only. But like I have. That's like the only way that I can. Like you have to put some sort of. Like I have to put some sort of thing on it so that I can go through and then quickly look at like, okay, well this is what my overall impression is. If the end it's fit to like the number of people that like, you know, you can get an awesome audition from somebody who you know is good and then just go, but that's just not right for what you're trying to do. Yeah.

Or you just somehow hear a better one. Like even an audition that's really, really good and you're going, this is probably going to be it. And then you get to the bottom of your pile and you find one that' somehow even a little bit better. And you're like, damn, I didn't know it could get better.

And trying to make those final decisions about like I. Because I've been in the very enviable place before where like you're looking at set of additions and you could cast the entire show or class an episode in the past is how I've done it. You could cast it five times over and it would be good. Like you have like you have a deep bench for each one that you go, I know I could get. Get good performances out of all of these people. And it's just a matter of picking the right one. In the past it has been made, I'm not going to say easier, but some of those decisions end up getting made for you because other people would snatch the actors that you wanted as other directors were like, oh, I want to cast so and so in this. And you're like, well, that. Okay, well I'll scratch them off my list and let me go to the next one. Yeah, this will be interesting to go through everything.

Well. Yeah. This time you're not fighting like in the pit with other directors to get the actors you want.

Yeah.

It was not pit fights in Breathing Space. We were all amiable, but it was.

We were all. It was all very nice, but the energy was super high, I don't think. Frenetic. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was. I don't think any of those casting disassociating, like.

Don't remind me.

Yeah, no, I. I feel you. Like, it was like a little legitimately, I think. Yeah. At least the last season I took the day off so that I could go home and be ready to do this the moment that the starting bell fired. To be able to go, okay, I need to listen to everything right now and do them all quickly.

I don't recommend doing it this way. Folks take more time than that.

That was a side effect of the fact that we had so many people working on it. And enough of those people were very excited, completely understandably, like, to go, oh, I want to start working on this immediately. And that was just sort of part of that project. So, yeah. I do not recommend other people do it that way of like forcing yourself to do it all in a single setting in like a six hour period. I'm gonna.

It is a good idea to take breaks and let your ears rest because you're right. Like, the fatigue thing is real. If you listen to 20 files in a row at the end, you like can't even hear the, like, it all kind of runs together. It's not good.

Yeah. And yeah, it's it. I will be. I'll try to be pacing myself and hopefully anybody who's listening to this when I actually do put it out, if I haven't gotten back to anybody yet, understand that it's because I'm trying to do it like, as fairly and as like.

Yeah.

And give everybody a fair shot and be deliberative about it and not be impulsive. So that being said, there was something that you mentioned, Sam, during your updates that reminded me of a thing that I now want to talk about a little bit, which was. I don't remember exactly what you said, but you're talking about how. Oh, yeah. You were thinking about how you couldn't imagine why they wouldn't just get off of the ship. Right. Like you wouldn't. Why they wouldn't just switch ships. And that instinct of trying to make sure that everything coheres and that everything's explained. You reminded me of an example of the like when you take that too far. Not that it's just the scenario, but there's a webcomic that I've been reading for 20 years at this point and I love. I'm not going to call this person out, but I was going to say, what is it?

And then I was like, actually, don't tell us what it is.

I'll tell you off mic. But there was a point where the author felt it was necessary. There was a bunch of characters in one location and they all needed to get to location B. Right. And he felt it necessary to explain how many cars they took and who sat in what position in the car and making sure to mention that somebody had brought towels so that the mess that people were covered when wasn't going to ruin the car seats. And this was basically an entire, like, comic. This was an entire page of their comic. And I am like, every time I think about that instinct to explain all of your little bits, I think about the time that we needed to. We, as the audience had to be put on pause for another couple of days while the author needed to explain who took what car to get from one location to the next, which is absolutely not relevant to the rest of the. It was just like, oh, yeah. That instinct of the author to like, I need to explain how this stuff. I know what it is. And other people might be asking it, like, are they really?

Yeah, yeah. I think there are definitely, like levels of sort of load bearing.

Yes.

Suspensions of disbelief that the audience needs to be able to do and things like, how did these people get from location A to B when cars exist in the world? Not a high load bearing, like detail, but yeah. Things like if you're on a ship that's breaking down and you are in space and you're trying to get like out of your solar system, why would you not grab a ship that works better than this one? It's a reasonable audience, like, scale.

Right.

Yeah.

Of like between the scope.

Like how much of the plot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, why is the plot going this way? And it doesn't, you know, does it make sense that the plot is good? Because it, like everything in the next, like four episodes hinges on the fact that they can't leave the mail track. So I had to make sure that they really couldn't leave the truck.

Yes. It's a load bearing detail.

Exactly. And it's the kind of thing where it is relevant going forward. It's a thing where, like, you have to answer that question now because if two episodes from now you're you know, the audience is going like, why is this a problem? Why did. If there, especially if there seems like there's an obvious solution to it, like the ability to discern between those two things.

Yes.

There's another version of that which is like the person who's a little too in love with their world building and like feels like they need to info dump all of the explanations. And sometimes that's can be good. Like I, I know that there are things that I've read in the past that I don't give a about what's going on in the plot. I just want to like hear weird little facts about the world. So sometimes it's about what you're doing, but sometimes it's also like, oh my God, do we need to hear about the history of this tree that like we're passing on the side of the road? Like do we need to stop the plot dead for 10 pages while we like hear about all of the history of some tiny esoteric part of it is another sort of all those coming back to the simple theme of understanding what you are trying to convey and does what you're doing right now actually do that? Right. Like what is, what are you communicating with this information? Are we, are we stopping dead for just to please you now? Sometimes like the, the author just reveling in a thing that you like to do is the point. Right. But being aware of the difference between maybe the way, the way I think of it is are you doing this because it's relevant and load bearing to the plot or are you answering a bad faith criticism that you made up?

Yeah. Yeah.

A guy who you made up that's mad at you.

Yeah. Where you, you imagine what somebody might say, hey, how did, how did these people get from location A to location B and how many cars did they take? That's way too many people for one car. And like who drove? But like, is that a real criticism?

Is that in which seat?

Yeah, is that a real criticism or is that a thing that you made up because you have been trained by bad faith criticisms in the past to.

I wrote fan fiction for a long time and I had a pretty big audience because I did anime fan fiction and I would get a lot of that sort of criticism. And it's funny because people that read a lot of fan fiction will criticize you about kind of stupid things. Oh yeah. They'll get stuck on something that really has absolutely no bearing on anything that actually matters. And so if you write enough fanfiction and you get stuck in that world you will start to write, catering to the people that are reading. So you'll start to over explain things that don't matter. And I see that a lot in all of these books that are being published right now that were originally fan fiction.

Oh yeah, serial number file off.

Yes, I see that all the time. They will be telling a pretty decent story. Their characters are very, very obviously based on something else that we all know and love. But they've done a good enough job of filing off the serial numbers enough. But then there'll be like pages and pages of some sort of explaining or trying to make the audience understand that this works because this. And it's like wow, you could have cut out 50 pages of this book because you absolutely did not need to explain that. And it's happening, it's happening a lot in the like the TikTok, you know, crazy Romanasy thing that's happening right now. But it's, it's, it's sad because like I think it is exactly what you said. It's that person they made up in their head that is, you know, gonna. Oh, but what if, what if they need to know how many people are in each car?

And the thing of course like you said, is that that person is real and they are on AO3 camping in your comments, like that's a real thing that's happening. However they're over represented. I don't care about that.

Yeah, I don't care about them at all.

Yeah, yeah. It's a little subroutine that being on the Internet just installs inside of your head about like how do I mean that? And that extends to even non fiction stuff where you're just like trying to write a post and you're like how could somebody deliberately misinterpret what I am saying?

In the worst case, not even once.

Yeah. Okay, well we've covered a couple of quick topics in there. I need to eat lunch before I have another meeting. So let's get our updates or our goals set for the next couple of things. Let me sort of get a vague idea of when we're going to be meeting.

The.

Oh well we have a conflict for the next one so that will be up in the air. That I will, I may, I may be keeping that, keeping that closer to the chest but so we'll figure that one out. So we're just going to set some vague time goals.

Don't worry about it listeners.

Don't worry about it.

You said nothing.

Yeah, we're going to set some Vague time goals. I will be casting. That's my thing. I'm going to be spending the next couple of weeks just listening to audio and getting people's. Getting interviews scheduled and getting that all sorted out. That also means that I probably also need to have contract stuff started too. So I need to either find a form contract or contact somebody who can draft one for me. So. Okay. I'm reminding myself that I need to do that.

Nice.

Contracts with. With 16 exclamation points. Okay, there we go. That's my. That's my goal for the next period.

Contracts.

Yep.

Good.

I have to have the full episode one of store two, three, six, completely done and proofed and finalized by probably the 14th. And so it's. It's totally doable. I'm not worried about it. I just need to, like, do it. And then I have to narrate an entire book for Penguin and have it all done and sent off and submitted by the 14th. Yay.

Oh, amazing. Okay, so don't worry about as in West. I will do some stuff on as in the West. I will try and draft through the next episode by the time we speak again. I don't know if that goal is realistic or not, but I'm gonna try.

Yeah, it's a thing to shoot for. How about you, Ike?

Yeah, well, I think I'm gonna be very kind to myself and say that I'm probably not gonna get much done in the next two weeks. I'm putting aside enough time to console everyone I know who doesn't get cast in. It takes a wolf. They're gonna need at least 30 minutes to an hour of like, just sobbing.

Just signing it to your shoulder.

I need to be there for them. So. And given, like, you know, like, it's. It's approximately like, you know, like 50 odd people now. Like, I've got to make sure I've got enough time in the calendar to allow for that.

Yeah.

That said, there is gonna be at least one period of time, about like nine to 10 hours, where I'm just gonna be sat in one place and not able to do much. So I might be able to get some writing doing. But, you know.

Yeah.

Who's to say?

Who's to say?

Like, what I will say is I aim in, like, probably not quite two weeks, maybe just slightly over, to be able to kind of like, just, I don't know, like, make an effort to kind of hang around some, like, really creative people, maybe, you know, like, tell them about my ideas and see if I get kind of like a bit more of a kind of like a boost and a creative kind of jump start from just being around them. So yeah, fingers crossed.

That sounds kind of nice.

Yeah, that would be great. All right, well, in that case.

Exactly. That'd be great.

We will catch the audience sometime in the future. Vaguely. We don't know when that's going to be yet, so bye Bye.

Bye bye.

Hey, thank you for listening to behind the Locked Doors. If you'd like to find out more about these projects, you can head over to www.library horse. And if you want to support projects, head over to patreon.com cursed knowledge anyway by.

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